It was 12 midnight BST in the UK when Rob Verkerk and Meleni Aldridge joined the Sky Dragon Slaying Team on TNT Radio recently.

On their show, John O’Sullivan, CEO and co-founder of Principia Scientific International (PSI), Joe Olson PSI co-founder and Joseph E Postma, ‘Slayer’ Colleague and Canadian Space Agency scientist, discuss controversial topics in science from the Covid Pandemic to Climate Fraud.

Join the Dragon Slaying Team, Rob and Meleni for a fast-moving hour of conversation that ranges from telling the truth, resilience and scientific misinformation, to how we can change healthcare systems from disease management systems to ones that promote health and personal responsibility, covid and its fallout, along with the two tenets of the work at ANH International - good science and good law. Phew! It's a corker of a discussion with not one, but two, of our core ANH team together.

We've linked to the podcast below and created a transcript of the conversation for those who prefer the written word.

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Read the show transcript

John O’Sullivan

Hi and welcome to another episode of Sky Dragon Slaying where we bring you the truth on science and current affairs the mainstream would rather you didn't know. I am John O'Sullivan, CEO Principia Scientific International, with me is Canadian space scientist Joseph Postma, and engineer extraordinaire, Joe Olson. In the first hour of our show, we're delighted to have with us Dr Robert Verkerk and Meleni Aldridge from the Alliance for Natural Health International. Dr Verkerk is an internationally acclaimed expert in health, agricultural and environmental sustainability and over the last 35 years, his work has focused on promoting a more natural and sustainable approach to healthcare, including environmental protection and reducing synthetic chemicals in our food. Meleni Aldridge joined Robert at Alliance for Natural Health in 2005 and serves as the executive coordinator director. She's a practicing clinical psychoneuroimmunologist, functional medicine practitioner and certified metabolic balance coach. Hi, Meleni, Hi Robert, how are you today?

Meleni Aldridge

Hi, great to be here.

Rob Verkerk PhD

Wonderful to be with you.

John O’Sullivan

Great to have you here. You're both in the early hours of the morning. We passed the midnight hour here, we're in the UK. With us, our usual team, Gerald Johnson and Joseph Postma. They're both in North America. They've got the benefit of the afternoon. For our wonderful listeners in Australia it's early morning on Sunday morning, 9:00 AM. What we want to do is a bit of a deep dive with you on the idea that you've been talking a lot about on your website, which I've been following for the past couple of months, about the issue of resilience. I know you did your tour and Robert, you're very good at this. I want to know what you think about linking things up: the physical, psychological and emotional well-being aspects of our life, especially in the last three years. We've had a few people on the show who have come from the health side of science and they really are concerned about how we’ve been lied to. We’ve been lied to by secret science practitioners in Big Pharma and governments. And we're waking up, aren't we? We're claiming back our sovereignty. What do you have to say to that?

Rob Verkerk PhD

Absolutely. Disconnection is really what the last three years has been all about, but of course that process has been ongoing, probably for hundreds, some might even say thousands of years. We now worship this thing called science and technology, and we have also found that we're kind of disconnected from everything that was important. If you look at people’s spiritual practices, we have been separated from, generally, that system. We've been separated from each other. If you look at the level of polarisation that has occurred not just between different population groups who have different views on different parts of the political spectrum, but we're seeing whole families divide. We see relationships breaking up because of people's different views. And, of course, when it comes to science, this new religion that we're meant to be now completely at the mercy of, you don't have to go very far. John Ioannidis, probably the most published scientist in the world, famously, back in 2005 published in PLOS, a very important paper that said 60% of published science is false. Now we see this trust breaking down in authorities. We see politicians, - Biden, you now can go to CNN and see the catalogue of lies that he is issuing. The same can be said of any premier and of course very topical, the arrival of Robert F Kennedy (RFK) Junior on the scene. Anyone who's listened to his opening speech to his presidential run says what he's going to do is bring truth to the table. I mean, that's something we just haven't had. So really what's happened is that as we get more and more separated, we lose resilience and so we gotta understand what it is. 

Joseph Postma 

Well, it seems, Robert, that everything has been industrialised. Our whole life has been industrialised. Everything that we normally have had personal responsibility for is just someone else's responsibility now. We don't have to think and be sovereign, have self sovereignty anymore. And I think it's a really great case in the pharmaceutical system of health where personal health responsibility is completely taken out of our hands. We don't know why the doctors are prescribing drugs and what drugs they're prescribing. We just trust them. We have no clue about personal health anymore. It was what the terrain theory would be all about: no, you have to be responsible for your health. You have to understand how to make your body healthy so that it doesn't get ill. But do you think that we can bring that back to a mass extent or has this industrialisation of, basically our personal life, has it taken over or will we get it back?

Rob Verkerk PhD 

I think we've passed the peak of this sort of nanny state on steroids bit that was going on. If you look at the sort of blind faith in the system early on, you can create these changes if you keep people in a perpetual state of fear. I think once people, through covid, started to realise that actually the danger, the risk from the virus, was no longer as great as it was, say, in the first three waves of 2020, but they were still being forced into lockdowns. There's a recognition that the primary determinants in health are social and environmental determinants. They're actually not access to medicines, access to drugs. In fact, you can argue that drugs, as Peter Gøtzsche has said from the Cochrane Collaboration, are the third leading cause of deaths in industrialised societies. So if we look at what's happened in social environmental determinants, it's horrendous and people are waking up to the fact that, yes, we've got to look at the chemicals and our food, we've got to look at the chemicals that we're given by our doctors, we've got to look at exposure to EMFs and we've got a planet that is really struggling. I'm so grateful to hear RFK, someone whose work I've followed very, very closely because of his passion for environmental issues, to bring to the table this notion that we are completely interdependently connected to every aspect of the natural world. If we don't wake up and start dealing with some of the problems and start recognising that the climate change focus that we're being offered is really not going to solve the much more serious problems that are going on in terms of habitat destruction, chemical pollution, acidification of the oceans, pollution of the atmosphere - these are the things that are really a problem and if we just focus on CO2 emissions and everyone goes out and buys electric vehicles, we can be guaranteed that we will not be solving any of those problems at all. 

Joseph Postma

Yeah, well, don't get us started on the CO2 issue, we can tell you all about that. Meleni, do you think that the pharmaceutical system, Robert mentioned medical drugs, there's a pharmaceutical system that just simply basically prefers sick people as there's so much money in illness?

Meleni Aldridge 

There is and money talks. And you have a look at the fact that so many of the different routes to healing are the ones that never get any money put behind them. I think that this is another area that people are waking up and looking at very, very closely. As the dial changes and you start to change your focus from disease management to health creation, that's something that you'll have seen, we're very committed to and we've been working along these lines for almost 20 years now - understanding our bodies and that we are intimately and intricately linked with nature. We are of nature and therefore we need to be using those kinds of healing modalities but I think Pharma’s day is done. I think that we're looking at the last hurrah at the moment because there is such an awareness now. We talk about resilience – one of the things that human beings, particularly in the developed world, have lost is metabolic resilience. And of course, that was really exploited during covid. As we start to have more awareness about this, as people have put their focus back into health again, you've seen this enormous upsurge in natural therapies, in non-drug and non-chemical forms of healing, different routes of therapy. I think it's only going to go bigger from here. 

John O’Sullivan

You know what I like about your work? Or can I just add, I want to emphasise the point that you're working on education, but you're also not afraid to use the law, something that I admire and something that we could all probably agree on with Robert Kennedy Junior as a lawyer. What he did, I think that was a big bonus for all of us, is to push for freedom of information requests and he used the law very successfully. And I take my hat off to him because his hard work through the legal system has forced the revelations that Big Pharma has done no safety tests on a lot of their vaccines for 30 years. That's just a stunning indictment of their cynical approach to our health. For me, it was a clincher. I felt that was one reason why I'm bound in my faith, in vaccines, and I have two children, both my children were vaccinated, but I think Kennedy's work was a big signal to me that I was gonna change my attitude towards the vaccine. And I told other people, why would you put anything in your body that hasn't been safety tested. I'm sure that your support of using the law, like we do at Principia Scientific, we've done it very effectively. Our former chairman, Dr Timble was very successful - he went in the British Columbia Supreme Court, won his case there against the UN IPCC climate scientist Dr Michael Mann - it took eight years and millions of dollars, but again, we prevail. It just goes to show you can, if you are very savvy and hard working and very selfless, overtime, you can grind out these legal victories that do enforce and complement your case on the moral side of it. Do you see yourself using the law more or do you think that's something that you're just going to let other people sort out amongst themselves?

Rob Verkerk PhD

The difficulty, just like the scientific system is, the legal system, the so-called justice system, is broken as well. One of the difficult things in trying to straighten out some of the legal malpractice that is going on that is rampant, particularly at the highest levels of government, of course, as we see this sort of merger, this corporatocracy, governments and corporates being almost indistinguishable because of the mindset. I mean the covid kind of bad science has found its way now into the justice system, and one of the things that many judges, for example, have difficulty with, is actually looking carefully at scientific matters, often relying on so-called experts that come from major academic institutions and they're rotten to the core as we've seen particularly with some of the views. We are having to deal with a broken system. Ultimately it is a question of making a series of strategic legal actions with people, where we're looking at the constitutional background and really looking at the  fundamental essence of the moral values of societies. And that's one of the reasons that when you look at something like resilience at all levels, resilience of communities, of societies, we have to look at values.

Some of the values that are central, that we regard as inalienable rights of human beings, fundamental freedoms, the right to expression, everyone agrees there has to be a dividing line because, for example, if we accept freedom of expression, we're not gonna accept an authority or a government lying to us. Yet they're doing that left, right and center. So there has to be a judgment. In a perfect world, we would look to the courts to make that judgment. I think it's why we have to continue to work side by side. Right at the heart of everything we do at ANH is what we call good science, good law. That was a concept when I came out of the Imperial College in 2002 to set up the Alliance for Natural Health, those were the two central principles because I felt science ultimately as a tool that helps us to understand the world around us, as well as the legal system that helps ensure that justice is done, are fundamental tenets of any civilised society. The fact is, both the scientific system and the judicial system are very, very broken. We're gonna have to fix it. We're gonna have to keep shining a light on those elements that are bad and broken and warped about it and we're going to have to appeal to those within it, whether we're talking about sciences or the courts themselves, to think about their own legacy - are they prepared to go down in history as the people who bought into lies and deception and all of that. I do think we've turned a corner now. We've turned a corner having someone like RFK. If that run is successful, I think that can be a huge global catalyst to a change in how we regard this thing that we call truth. It’s never going to be an absolute, but it's an idea that gives us the best perspective on what the facts look like, what the knowledge base that we deal with as a complex biological being that's been around for a few 100,000 years.

Joseph Postma

Yeah, Robert and Johnny, we have a very good point that we need to use a legal system. We do live in a generally very litigious society, but one thing we haven't done well, which would really benefit science and politics is we cannot just straight up yet anyway. We can't straight up, what we need to do is just straight up be able to sue people, to lie to the public, it's as simple as that, we need to be able to sue them for all that they're worth when people lie to the public. Because, lies are provable, talk about the foundation of Western civilisation is based on the reasons, based on provability of truth, and we certainly can and we know darn well, when people are lying. John brought up the case of Tim Ball and Michael Mann. These things are provable in court, we can prove that they're lying. We should be able to sue them out of house and home. What do you think of that? How can we make that work? How come a lawyer hasn't figured out how to do that yet?

John O’Sullivan

Yeah, what we need to do is, in the public domain we have the court of public opinion like we have at TNT Radio where we kind of encourage debate and debate is what we want to see. We don't want secret science, what we want to see is open debate like a platform like TNT Radio. We welcome people on to share their opposing views and not everything we hear we agree with, but we like to air things and that's what we're gonna do in a short while.

John O’Sullivan

Hi Dragon Slaying with Doctor Robert Verkerk and Meleni Aldridge from the Alliance for Natural Health International - before the break we were talking about the issue of getting the law to work for us and Robert Kennedy Junior has come into the fore. He's thrown his hat into the ring, running for president, and what a welcomed change from Joe Biden! Joe Olson, what do you think of that? 

Joe Olson 

Well, I'm not ready to anoint him as our savior at this point. He did a great book on Fauci last year, but in 2020 he wrote a book called Climate in Crisis: who's causing it, who's fighting it, and how he can reverse it before it's too late. So he's a 100% warmist. We've proven that repeatedly, you're not going to prove anything in a court of law because the law is totally corrupt and the judges don't have any more than a grade school education in any science. So that's an absolute false start. Now on Robert’s website, he mentions the different things - he's got like a wheel with a dozen different parts to it, and one of them that we need to get balanced is oxidative stress. And you get oxidative stress from the things that you have to deal with every day, but the government makes sure that you reach a maximum level of those. A perfect example of that was NASA Future Wars 2025, a half day long seminar with over 100 slides documented very well by Aaron and Melissa Dykes on their website, Truth Stream Media, and in those documents, NASA said that in order to have continuation of government, we need to have trauma based mind control and this was presented in July of 2001 and two months later we had 911. So tell me again how you're going to solve problems with government when government is the biggest problem that we've got. 

Rob Verkerk PhD

I think that is the conclusion that has been reached by everyone that is in the sort of control seat, the puppet masters of society now, including the whole of the World Economic Forum. If you look at their transformation maps that look at all the different facets of society, you'll see that one of the central elements in all of them is social instability. They have to create social instability to create this shift, and you can look at any index you care to look at. The world is moving ever quicker towards ever more authoritarian states. The Economist in the UK is a good example of that. They're looking at an index of democracy - at the moment there's only 6% of the population of the world that live in what might be described as true democracies. Even those are pretty flawed, but the concern is the degree of authoritarian creep. I think anyone who's looking to a government for the solution now is certainly barking up the wrong tree. We have to really find those solutions within the subcultures that are developing in pretty much every element of life whether you're looking at healthcare, you're looking at food production, you're looking at the financial systems. These systems are already being created in parallel to the mainstream systems.

John O’Sullivan

I think a good point is this WEF infiltration of all the governments, and they seem to keep successfully getting their people into leadership positions in the government when you know the populaces hate these leaders. So this isn't natural organic democracy, it's obviously bought and paid for. It's obviously government not happening ideally in theory, especially in the West the government is supposed to serve for the people. We shouldn't be having these leaders who really most people hate and are implementing these policies that nobody wants. So there is a potential for taking over government, how it is so entrenched. Ideally, the government should work for us. If it's not going to work for us, then we're really all on our own - it has become much more difficult that way. Those are very good points. 

Rob Verkerk PhD

But trust in governments has never been so low and trust in the media has never been so low. I think when people start to put together the fact that whether you look at lab leaks or masks being a solution, or lockdowns working or genetic vaccines, C19 vaccines, releasing people from all the control or that there would not be any kind of autoimmune problems. We're now seeing a big class action in the UK being taken against AstraZeneca, the fact that ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine, vitamin D, quercetin, etc were concealed from the public as being the solution when all the evidence suggests that they were incredibly helpful. I've led a big study with the VAX control group on that. People are beginning to see this and I think the interesting markers are when you start to see the mainstream media beginning to have to turn a corner. In the early days only the old media were carrying this information. Increasingly, we're seeing some of the major newspaper portals having to carry this information because the evidence is just too great - that they were lied to, that the information that was given was wrong. That's the beginning of the corner being turned. 

John O’Sullivan

Yeah. Really, really. 

Meleni Aldridge  

I was just going to say this brings us full circle back to personal sovereignty and everything that's happening is enabling people to step back into that place again and realise that we do have choice, and we do have personal power, and we can exercise our rights in certain ways. The more that spreads and the more the message gets out, I really feel that there is a lot of hope in that and there is a lot of hope in individuals actually standing up and yes, taking responsibility for their lives, for their health, for their communities and shifting the balance of power completely.

John O’Sullivan

We've made the point on several shows with our guests, all eminent people, all very well qualified, very confident, all very assertive and very articulate. The consistent point we make is that all of us, it doesn't matter how clever we are, how well educated we are, we still tend to defer to other trusted authority figures because we can't be omniscient, we can't know everything. So there's always that kind of compromise we all have to make when in an area that you're not familiar with, you kind of want to go to somebody you trust. Your authority figures are those that you kind of want to turn to for that shortcut that kind of faith in our understanding and it's something that we learned in the last three years that the people we were trusting have betrayed us and we need to have a reset. And I think the reset is moving away from authorities like for example, the peer reviewed journals. Science journals are corrupt. We know that, for example, The Lancet Journal, that world leading journal, was so discredited. Many of us choosing the NHS, the three of us here tonight on the show too who live under the NHS auspices and we find that we’re being betrayed, very poorly served for our tax dollars. We need to kind of rethink everything though from the bottom up. It really is that bad, isn’t it? 

Meleni Aldridge 

It is, but you could look at it in a very positive light as well, because everything has brought us to this point. And at times of great change like this, we've also got enormous times of opportunity. And I think that people have really been following the money these last three years and seeing the level of corruption in so many places that wasn't expected, but is actually a reality. There is nothing for it but to realise that we've got to raise it to the ground and we've got to do it again. And we're seeing so many groups coming to the fore with amazing solutions, with new ideas. There is this whole kind of beautiful spring of all these shoots of creativity coming through as well. And it's just about balancing the collapse as we've got the uprising of all the new coming through as well. So I do feel that we are going to be coming through the weeds and out into the fresh air sometime soon and it really does take each one of us to be playing our part. Whether that's the truth game, whether that's the health game, whether that's just holding somebody's hand in the street. Every single one of us is playing our part, and we're all gonna walk out into the fresh air together I feel in the not too distant future. But we are going to see an awful lot of collapse as the things that have not been for the good of humanity start to fall to the ground. 

John O’Sullivan

Yeah, they're dead within. That has to be pruned out. Joe Olson

Joe Olson 

Yes, I googled Alliance for Natural Health and the first two listings were Wiki saying that you were pseudoscience and disinformation. The second one was Media Bias/Fact Check and you were pseudoscientist disinformation folks.

John O’Sullivan

Welcome to the club. 

Meleni Aldridge 

It's a badge of honour. It's a badge of honour, Joe. 

Rob Verkerk PhD

Exactly wear it proudly and understand that the system… I think I've written 270 articles on covid since the whole issue broke on the 12^th of March 2020. It's quite interesting if you go back through that log and we've got all of that at covidzone.org as a shortcut to that part of our website. We haven't had to change scientifically anything that we said. We went straight for immune support in the early days. We were amongst the first to talk about some of the protocols even before Pierre Kory and others were using them. I think we were amongst the first to point out that the issues around the great reset before anyone was talking about it. We pointed to problems with vaccine transparency and that there would be many more problems from lockdowns etc.

But you know, coming back to this idea of trust in the system, you've mentioned the idea that the National Health Service is this huge, gargantuan health system that provides free healthcare at the point of use. Many people who have complex conditions are not satisfied with what the mainstream system is offering. We just don't get to hear what's really happening because it's not communicated widely. We work closely with one of the insurance companies for the entire alternative healthcare sector. There are 6 million visits to private services, so this is people having to pay money because they can't get services that are offered by the National Health Service, 6 million a week. That's 312 million a year of people helping, supporting their communities and people paying good money for that. Now that indicates that there is demand outside. It's just a dirty secret that the NHS and others don't want to get out. Of course, yes, they do refer to any of these modalities as pseudoscience. Ultimately, when we review what is going on, we did a big piece on scientific misinformation around about a month ago, The Nobel Foundation is going to be having in Washington DC a big meeting to deal with the trust in science, they look at trust and they look at hope and they look at the future and the whole thing is about how they can orchestrate a massive attack on what they call scientific misinformation. What they've done is that they've effectively defined scientific misinformation in such a way that any of the major academic institutions are immune from it. So it's pretty much a dead ringer for what's happened in terms of looking at immunity that has been given to vaccine manufacturers in terms of the harms that vaccines create in the public, so it's a very, very dangerous move. We're gonna be hearing a huge… it is one of the key tools that's gonna be used. I think at the heart of it, because of the awareness that people have, it's going to fail and it's going to cause more and more people to actually wake up. I think that's the really positive change that's already happening. 

Joseph Postma

They're trying to design it as institutional corruption. What an amazingly corrupt system would that be. Calling you and calling us pseudo, I found a few statements on your website to be really interesting for our listeners too just to hear some actual competent science. We discussed your Health Science, so you had made this statement ‘Why eat less to move more is doomed to failure’ Do you want to explain what that meant and what people should do instead? Maybe Meleni you want to take that on?

Meleni Aldridge 

Yes, absolutely so. It's just too simplistic and it doesn't take into account that we are all so individual, but also it doesn't take into account anything of our heritage or the evolutionary biology that has actually got us to this point in time. Our bodies actually function so much better when we're built for famine. We have all of these protected pathways that have been placed into our systems through Mother Nature and very few of them are actually being engaged when we eat the way that most people eat these days. You can look at it as some big conspiracy if you want but the big food companies are definitely making sure that there are sufficient patients for the pharmaceutical industry because actually what we need to be doing an awful lot more of is changing what we're putting into our bodies, changing how frequently we put into our bodies, leaving much longer gaps between the food that we eat, and going back really to speak to our genes in the language that they understand.

This very simplistic idea of calories in calories out, if you just move more, it also doesn't take into account that we are such multidimensional complex beings and we need multifaceted strategies as well. We've broken all of this down. I'm not sure whether you've seen, but one of the big projects that we've had over the last 15 years is we've put a lot of our energy into creating a blueprint for a new system of healthcare that approaches the body and approaches people’s lives in a completely different way and looks at this multidimensional, multifaceted way that we are. We look very much into all the emotional side of things as well as how people are functioning in their communities because you can't just bring everything down to calories, and unfortunately that is what conventional dietetics and conventional medicine tends to do and just forget that there's an entire person there with a whole life story, a whole life history, living in an environment that is having an impact on their health as well. So it's really multifaceted.

Joseph Postma

Yeah, I did see that. It was really impressive because it seemed like an actual scientific analysis towards health personally, rather than just ‘here, you need this drug’ approach. I was really impressed with that approach. 

Rob Verkerk PhD

We don't have a language that different modalities in medicine can speak that are in common with each other. Mainstream medicine speaks one kind of language, but even the specialisms within them have been so siloed off that one specialist cannot speak about another system to another specialist. Yet the entire body is interconnected. In the alternative medicine field, it is also the same. We don't have a universal language. One of the central elements is creating a universal language that is based around function so that we can start building function in people, which is really what health creation is. It's exactly what regeneration is, and that's the thing that we're doing so badly in healthcare because it is basically like a smashed repair yard. It is just dealing with the problem at a very late stage and it doesn't work. Healthcare systems are falling over because of that. 

Joseph Postma

That's brilliant. You have develop that language.

John O’Sullivan

Right, in the UK, Sunday the 23rd of April, St. George's Day, it's also Emergency Alert Testing day where everybody was gonna get a horrendous noise on their phone, probably gonna scare most of them to death. Well Rob or Meleni, what do you think of that?

Meleni Aldridge 

I was just goin to say I’ve turned it all off. 

John O’Sullivan 

Yeah, me too.

Joseph Postma

They do it to us here in Alberta, Canada, every now and again, every six months or something, it's really stupid. You just press stop on your phone then it goes away, but they sure like to make you feel afraid of possibly…

Rob Verkerk PhD

Exactly and also they are able to control the people and I think it's also getting people used to this idea that there will be an emergency.

Joseph Postma

They’re gonna put the most ridiculously stupid things, no doubt you'll be having warnings about climate change coming to you or some stupid thing. 

Rob Verkerk PhD

Yeah, the start of the climate change lockdowns, for example. 

Joseph Postma

Exactly. There you go, yeah.

John O’Sullivan

Yeah, the fear factor is alive and well, isn't it? We're gonna be getting it between 2:00 PM and 4:00 PM on Sunday for those of us in the UK. 97.23 million mobile connections in the UK, 85.1 million active mobile devices and 12.2 connected things, 98% of the UK adult population in the UK have a mobile phone. These people, are they gonna be Guinea pigs for the 5G frequency? I've had messages, quite a lot of messages in my inbox at Principia Scientific saying that this is all another idea of due directed energy weapons and electrosmog. These are things that you probably know very well indeed. What can you say to our audience about this kind of thing?

Rob Verkerk PhD

If you look at World Economic Forum, you look at Klaus Schwab’s 2017 book, The 4th Industrial Revolution, you look at the 23 technologies that he's talking to, which include gene edited human beings, you'll see one of the first ones he discusses are implantable mobile devices. Now you ask the average 14, 15, 16 year old ‘guys these cell phones you've got, they're a bit of a hassle, have you ever lost one before? Guess what, we can plant one in your brain or on your shoulder and you'll never lose it and we can communicate with you all the time’

Joseph Postma

That's basically what Elon Musk is working on, isn't it?

Rob Verkerk PhD

Exactly. If you look at the transhumanist agenda, C19 vaccines, we didn't have a conversation about it, a public conversation - there was no discourse. As soon as you're able to use an mRNA platform to be able to choose whatever protein you want to express, the people who take those jabs in essence are now expressing a patented protein, because of course it's not exactly the same as the coronavirus protein that came out of a lab anyway. Of course this is just another step further, so these steps are really, really critical.

One of the things that we're not factoring into that equation is what happens with these wavelengths. Many people understand frequency and they understand that if you look at the full frequency spectrum starting off with the Schumann resonances, these very low frequencies, and we thought they were only very low frequencies, that the Earth is giving off, and then we go all the way through the radio frequency waves that we're taking through at the moment, through microwave infrared into the visible light spectrum and out into ionising radiation. We have an idea that’s going on, but what we don't necessarily recognise is that the amplitude and the wave form, the nature, the shape of those waves, carries huge amounts of information. These digital waves are different to any waves that humans have been exposed to before, so these are very sharp. They're not smooth, nice sine waves, they're very sharp irregular waves, and they are incredibly disruptive to biological systems. This is a really key area of emerging science. All of the scientists who were originally funded by the major telecoms companies, as they change their view on particularly the non-thermal risks, and they started criticising ICNIRP, which is the big international institute that determines what is safe, had all their funding cut. It's the same old story, we've seen it with anyone that presses up against the system. In essence, when we think that the covid vaccine issue was one of the biggest experiments ever mounted on an innocent public, the EMF exposure is a far bigger experiment because it doesn't just affect one species, it affects all of the biotic systems. So when we look at this extraordinary crash in insect populations, I mean insects and birds are particularly impacted because they're so dependent on natural fields that are produced by the earth that are also coming from cosmic waves. Now we've got this huge electrosmog issue going on that is very, very poorly understood. Science in it is being massively distorted and then they want to put these damn things in the bodies of children.

Joseph Postma

Well, here's the obvious extrapolation. You mentioned that these vaccines, or whatever you want to call them, mRNA modalities, getting your cells to express basically an artificial protein which it has never expressed before in the entire human history, do you think it's possible to get your body to express a protein that becomes some artificial thing which is basically a Wi-Fi receiver or Bluetooth receiver? Is it basically like that?

Rob Verkerk PhD

The bottom line is that they were really interesting experiments that were going on that were published in the published science that we were able to track up to about 2017, that actually involved graphene. You’ll see how the system has jumped on anyone that's talking about graphene in C19 genetic vaccines as being completely pseudoscience, conspiracy theorists. Yet they were showing that graphene, which is essentially an atomic layer of carbon, if you look at the pencil lead, which is graphite, we're just looking at a single atomic layer of that, that can build these structures, and these can act as communication devices. Theoretically, because we are of carbon, there could be a way in which we're manipulated, but right now I think it's more likely that it can be injected into people.

One of the reasons I think that they are looking at vaccination as such a mainstream system, I mean I saw this coming in 2018. I went to a conference in Europe that was the 50 year birthday party of the pharmaceutical industry and they were celebrating the fact that… the reason I went is it was going to be on disease prevention and I thought, well, I'd better keep an eye on what the Pharma industry is going to be doing for disease prevention. We know that socioeconomic factors, diet, lifestyle, are the key factors that really prevent disease. Of course they were saying we're going to do it with vaccines and they were celebrating the fact that the mRNA platform was going to be the primary way that they did this. You gotta understand this came only six years after the entire collapse of the previous biochemistry model that led to the patent cliff for the big blockbuster drugs.

They put a huge amount of faith in the idea of mRNA controlling the types of proteins that the body can express, they're now going to try and fast track that so that they can say ‘hey, look, we've proven C19 vaccines are safe’, which is actually one of the biggest scientific lies out there. Talking about legal actions, that is the key legal action we're looking at at the moment is to be able to challenge the safety claim. It is one of the biggest lies and it's copycatted through every single health authority. Just put in covid-19 vaccine and then in quotes "safe and effective" in Google and you'll see all the authorities that are claiming exactly the same thing when it's neither effective. In fact, the effectiveness claim is a tougher one to win in the courts because it depends what you mean, but safety is absolutely something that we can talk about and the fact that they're still claiming these vaccines are safe and they will continue to do so until they're dragged through the courts until they can't do it anymore. The agrochemical industry, the pesticide industry had to deal with that same issue. I was very involved in Australia in stopping pesticide companies from using the safety claim back in the 1980s. We now need to do the same when it comes to vaccines. 

Joseph Postma 

Yeah, well, that's fine. 

John O’Sullivan

Sorry, I just want to make the point here that there's a direct correlation between the failure to do robust safety checks on the vaccines and 5G. It's very much the same. We covered on Principia Scientific International a couple of years ago a major new study that revealed the health threats of 5G and the New Hampshire commissioned to study the environmental and health effect of evolving 5G technology, it was a major report! 13 experts in epidemiology, occupational health, toxicology, physics, engineering plus, one wireless and industry expert. They all came to the same conclusion that 5G is not by any special imagination a safe upgrade to the system. In fact it opens a can of worms. We’re talking in effect, Joe Olson you’ll remember this yourself, the idea that microwave technology is essentially a weapon system, isn't it? It was brought about during the Second World War. They couldn't quite get radar to be the weapon they planned it to use, so they used it for less insidious purposes and it's something that we will keep coming back to, because we do feel at Principia Scientific, that everything is connected. 

Meleni Aldridge 

Yes, absolutely. Couldn't agree more. 

Rob Verkerk PhD

It’s the milliwave technology, but again, it's so clever because of course they don't tell you it's milliwave technology, they say it's 5G, the 5th generation, and of course when they released 5G, everyone is starting to use 5G in their phones, most of it isn't yet milliwave, but they've accepted they have a phone that can deal with it. One of the reasons that they haven't rolled it out is it doesn't work as well as they thought. You know you're gonna have to have all these small antennae systems that are gonna be next to your baby's bedroom because, even foliage of a plant, let alone a brick wall, can stop it. So exposure levels are gonna go through the roof, but of course probably what they'll do is say ‘don't worry about it, we're gonna move to 6G’. I mean these names mean nothing. What really matters is the nature of the radiation that's being given off and you're absolutely right, once we move into milliwave technology, we are looking exactly at a technology that was developed for military purposes and it is potentially very, very dangerous. One of the concepts that is very useful for the public - if something is new to nature, whether we're looking at a chemical or a radiation source, human beings and other aspects of nature are likely to have a problem with it. New to nature radio frequencies and other EMF's being issued are a massive problem, as are all the chemicals in the environment, as are all the pharmaceuticals, as are the nature of our food supply today. This is the stuff that is really harming us. So we want healthcare, we have to deal with all of these issues. 

Joseph Postma

Meleni, one thing that we've discussed a lot here on our show is the issue of just the number of vaccines that are taken. One thing that we've identified is it really seems to be that it's the adjuvants that they want, whatever their system is. It seems that they really want to get the adjuvants in, because you're supposed to get different viruses to these shots, but what’s the same in each of these shots is all these adjuvants which seem to be so toxic. So what's your opinion on the adjuvant load that you get from vaccines? Are these dangerous? Are vaccines in general dangerous, should we avoid them?  

Rob Verkerk PhD

Look, I think the difficulty is that we can't…

Joseph Postma

Sorry I was asking Meleni that.

Meleni Aldridge 

Rob I’ll start off then you jump in. I think again we're talking individually and everybody has a different load that they can handle and it depends on so many different factors. It depends on your genetics, on the environment that you've been in, on how your immune system's been built up and so some people sail through all of these things, and have no adverse responses at all. Other people only have to have one jab and they have the most catastrophic consequences. What the last three years has hopefully shown a lot of people is that one size really doesn't fit all. I believe very strongly in freedom of choice, but also in proper informed consent and nobody has had proper informed consent. I don't believe that anybody's really been able to make a proper decision about it.

John O’Sullivan

Meleni Aldridge, I hate to cut you off but we’re coming very much to the end of the show. Thank you both very much indeed.