ANH founder Rob Verkerk PhD, joined the Politically Incorrect team of experienced ex-mainstream journalists, Mike Tennessee and Richard Carsson, on Australia's TNT Radio on Saturday 16 July.

During the interview, a multitude of different topics were covered, from the dissolution of medical bioethics, to the corruption of science, and the sorry state of mainstream journalism. 

We hope you enjoy the conversation as much as we did. You'll find the audio available as podcast, and below it a transcript. Please share widely.

 

Read the transcript

This is Politically Incorrect with Mike Tennessee and Richard Carsson. 

Mike Tennessee

Welcome to everybody who has taken the trouble to listen in today, whether it be morning, midday, evening, night time, wherever you're going to be in the world. 

It's a great pleasure to be here with you on my tenancy. My dear friend Richard Carsson is with me again and Richard today we have a very special guest who is an internationally acclaimed expert in health, agricultural and environmental sustainability. During the course of his work over the last 35 years, this man has focused on a diverse array of issues ranging from Environmental Protection to reducing synthetic chemical load amongst urban and rural communities to assist in the development of natural and sustainable approaches to healthcare and I mention that this is none other than Dr Robert Verkerk. His qualifications are many. 

Just as a bit of a summary, he has a Bachelor of Science and honors from the University of Westminster in London in the late 70s and early 80s. A Master of Science, with distinction, from the Imperial College of London in the early 90s and a diploma of Imperial College London in the early 90s and a Doctor of Philosophy from the Imperial College of London in the early 90s as well, he's also a fellow of the American College of Nutrition. 

Welcome to the program, Dr Verkerk. 

I just want to mention a couple of things more so that our listeners have an idea of what you have done in a very short space of time. 

Following your degree in ecology from the Westminster University, he spent some 10 years in the private sector in Australia, where Richard and I are, working in the field of sustainable environment management while simultaneously leading various environmental campaigns through voluntary work at the Total Environment, Sydney, that's interesting, you know. 

So welcome to the program. 

So I know that you have spent a lot of time in Australia and I think I know that some if not all of your children were actually born in Australia, is that correct? 

Rob Verkerk PhD

Hi Mike, Hi Richard, yes four of my children were born in Australia and one of them is getting married in October, so yes, I've got a lot of roots back in Australia as well. 

Mike Tennessee

Now Richard, you've got some interesting questions. 

Richard Carsson

Well, I'm hoping I can get one or two together. Rob over the last couple of years, there's probably been an increasing confusion between a patient and the doctor. I'm just wondering where all this has come from. 

You know it's part of the chaos of the coronavirus and the COVID work that's being done. Is there a changing of the goalposts and the doctors being struck off around the world for having a position on being a doctor or a family doctor or whatever? What's going on

Rob Verkerk PhD

It's a fascinating situation. I've just come back from Brazil where we had a gathering [physically & virtually] of probably round about 1000 doctors and health professionals, mainly from Latin America, but there I met one of the integrative medicine Australian doctors who I've been connecting with for the last year or two and she really indicated just how bad things are, particularly in Australia, but this is not just an Australian problem. In essence we were moving towards a system in terms of bioethics that the therapeutic relationship, what happens in the confidential environment of a patient and their doctor is pretty sacrosanct. 

You can talk about a whole range of things that you wouldn't normally talk about and they wouldn't be divulged to the public. It's as if all of that has been removed, and now we have institutions, social media companies spotlighting into what was this very private environment and essentially the doctors that are being struck off or are at risk of being struck off haven't even done any harm. 

If you look at the guiding principles, there are four guiding principles that were published by Beauchamp and Childress back in 2009. It's the textbook of medical bioethics of what's meant to happen in medical practice and one of them is autonomy. The right of an individual to make his or her own choice, but the other one is beneficence. That's this idea of always acting in the best interests of your patient and non-maleficence is the princeiple of doing no harm, which is locked into the Hippocratic Oath as well. And then the fourth one, believe it or not, is justice. This idea that you have fairness and equality among individuals, dare I say it, regardless of vaccination status. 

Now all of that has been thrown to the wind, so the average doctor is now sitting looking over their shoulder at these institutions, social media companies and anything else, we have a kind of dob in culture. So many of the doctors who are now losing their license or battling to save their licenses are responding to a complaint that, if you like, a patient plant, has written into the medical board because they've been asked to do that. To use Matthias Desmet's concept of mass formation, these are people who have  been blinded by this false ideology. That is, you know, a Teflon-coated route of essential disregard of some of the most important principles that we've held as values in civilised societies, and now this very group that we rely on for our health are the ones who are in the firing line. So we've got to reestablish some of these principles, again, and obviously the last three years we've just seen their erosion at a rate that none of us thought would be possible. 

Richard Carsson

We've had that situation here in Australia where the the medical Board or I think they're called AFRA or some such acronym. I don't think there's a medical person on the board there at all. It's almost a bureaucratic structure with no knowledge. Just handing out almost like you've done it wrong because you're trying to help your patient, allowing them to make up their own mind, so therefore that doesn't suit us. You're out that. It's a hideous scenario at the moment. 

Rob Verkerk PhD

Exactly, and that completely is contrary to the principle of beneficence that is built into these. These guiding principles so yeah, somehow whether it's through the courts, whether it's through public pressure, whether it's through just actually some common sense again. We're starting to see a whole range of conditions that are now increasing. It's very, very difficult to establish causality when we look at, for example, the increase in cancer rates and we look at the increase in autoimmune rates. We know both those conditions are actually associated with the mRNA injections, but of course they're also associated with a lack of early treatment so if people start to lose trust in the people that they used to have trust in, the family physician, the general practitioner, which is often the place where most people go to look at these problems at an early stage we have a huge problem on our hands. 

Richard Carsson

I think you'd call it a massive trust deficit because it's not only with the medical establishment now, but as an individual, I have no trust in the mainstream media. I have zero trust in the majority of politicians because they've all been, you know, to think our last Prime Minister, I thank God he's gone Morrison, but he was saying there's no coercion, but if you don't get a jab, you'll lose your job you'll lose the livelihood and everything else, and you can't go to a restaurant. What an absolute nonsense, but that's what people had to put up with. It was criminal. 

Rob Verkerk PhD

Yeah, absolutely that talks to the cognitive dissonance. You say one thing with one hand then another thing with another hand, and you expect people to believe it. But, you'll notice we're seeing political regime change all over. We're dealing with the same problem in the UK, Boris is going. 

Mike Tennessee

Yeah, was for different reasons. 

Rob Verkerk PhD

Well yes, you know you can dream up any kind of reason and you never know whether you're going to replace someone who's better or worse. But I think in the UK situation there will definitely be, the UK hasn't been fully toeing the line certainly at the World Economic Forum and my sense is if Rishi Sunak gets in, which is now appearing quite likely, we will see that line toed and again a little bit like Morrison and this idea of coercion Rishi Sunak is saying he's going to sort out inflation and taxation. But this is at the heart of the portfolio that he's been responsible for and and now he's going to sort it out and everyone's believing it. 

Richard Carsson

So you're saying he's more in line with the World Economic Forum rubbish. 

Rob Verkerk PhD

He will be absolutely, yep. 

Richard Carsson

Yeah, I get the impression that these toads have been put in into certain areas all around the world and then there's a Russian to bring them up to the front to carry out the bidding of Klaus Schwab and others. So it's imperative that people start to get some knowledge of what's going on and what's being done to them? I know you're, probably exasperated by it with your background and your knowledge, but the more we hear and see, the worst it's becoming. 

Rob Verkerk PhD

But Richard there is a there is a silver lining to the clouds and and you just mentioned what it is. It's this idea of distrust. You mentioned you don't trust the politicians or the mainstream media. The fact is that level of distrust of the political system, the medical establishment, not medical doctors, but the establishment that controls what they do. That is all going South very, very rapidly and with that comes an opportunity. And I mean, this is how revolutions start and essentially people do need to take a stand. Until they take a stand, until they get off the teflon coated route to madness that they're being ushered down nothing will change, but there are more and more people who're saying not only do things not look right or feel right for them they want to start doing something about it. They want to be talking to their friends and families and say look, let's start asking some of the right questions because sometimes we can't always get answers, but you can at least start asking the questions that suggest that something is very wrong. 

Richard Carsson

Do you have a query in there Michael? 

Mike Tennessee

Yes I have. I don't know if it's as relevant, but I've mentioned this before with others on this same program. Well, but there seems to have been a trend. Where here in Australia at least, and I'm not sure how it has panned out in the UK, or indeed other places, but we used to have our own local General practitioner who was somebody one could trust implicitly and you'd know that they weren't likely to be telling other people about what they just. First, nowadays, of course, general practitioners are in the minor numbers because they seem to be joining with younger doctors who want to practice general medicine join practices which in the main are owned by companies, run by companies which are in turn owned by quite often foreign companies. So it's quite a different scenario, and certainly during the pandemic for good reason. Most visits to the doctor or over the telephone, and that seems to be a trend which is carrying on regardless of the fears of serious contamination by visiting clinics because you can't just visit one doctor in a little house on the corner anymore you've got to go to these clinics. Is that something which has some analogy with what you've been talking about? 

Rob Verkerk PhD

100%, there are two two main trends that are going on that are affecting medicine. One is globalisation. It's affecting every part of our lives and look at what's happened to the food supply and globalisation has really hit healthcare. And of course, when you have a so-called global threat in the form of an existential virus that everyone has to respond to, that fast tracks the globalisation principle and the second one is this idea of telemedicine, digital medicine and AI controlled medicine. 

There's a real push on that, and obviously you can see that this idea of of sequencing everyones genome so you can understand essentially what the book of life is for each and every individual, so that you can remotely determine what they're susceptibilities are, their risks are, there's a huge push in that whole process. The downside for them is that it works less effectively than they think, because they often ignore the principle of epigenetics, and epigenetics is a big word that just means the way in which the environment around us, both internally and externally, affects the way our genes are expressed, and in fact it makes permanent changes to gene expression, it's one of the ways that we're built to adapt to new and changing environments. And so you can have twin studies which have done a lot of the groundwork in epigenetics you can have two people with an identical genome who live in different places, who end up having very very different health outcomes. One can become, chronically diseased and obese and riddled with cancer and the other one can be very very healthy just by living a different diet and lifestyle,  but nevertheless, they're giving it a good go. There are doctors who are being approached even in the UK when everyone thinks this is a completely, public health care system that is free at the point of use, being approached by companies that are coming and saying look, don't worry about seeing 60 patients a day. What you can do is get them on the phone through programs such as Ask My Doctor. There will be a whole range of bots that will ask most of the questions and they will think its you, so you know a lot of times when you see the development of these AI systems it's hard to know whether you're talking to a real person or not, so you instantly blow apart confidentiality because your data as you feed it into this bot is going into a huge database that's then processing your data, putting you into an individual compartment, determining what kind of drugs and interventions you need and bingo out goes this long standing, confidential therapeutic relationship that really should remain at the heart of good quality health care. 

Richard Carsson

The introduction or the push for this AI system, how does that all happen? I tend to be very computer illiterate and I barely open anything up, so how are they going to get hold of me? Knock me over in the park and jab me or something? 

Rob Verkerk PhD

Yeah, the bottom line is it works most of the time as you start ringing into any company which may include your primary care physician. You get put on a phone line, you get put into a queue, you start to answer certain questions about what your needs are and you know all very well if you've still got a local practice where it's just about making a a booking, so it's just a clinical management system. But increasingly, what we're seeing is you're being actually categorised according to your so-called needs, and those needs are often not what your real needs might be. Essentially, you've got an AI system determining what your needs are, and that's one of the reasons people who say, look my need is to have natural immunity supported and not having mRNA jabs. You can see that those people are not actually being considered appropriately by their primary care physicians, because if they are supported, the physician is at risk of losing his or her job. 

Mike Tennessee

That increases the distance between the patient and the doctor doesn't it. The more this goes on, the less likely we are going to be able to actually tell a doctor a person, someone who we've been visiting from time to time and of course, as one gets older it tends to increase in numbers of visits. It's going to get worse and worse with all this. How can we know who to trust. 

Rob Verkerk PhD

Desocialisation is a big part of the agenda over the last, two or three years when you desocialise people when you rip them apart from their community structures they no longer function in a rational way. There have been, many experiments done with rats and mice showing exactly the same kind of imbalance. So this is a process. I mean it's built right into this idea of the great reset that Klaus Schwab told us all about back in 2020 and and we're seeing it manifest all around us at the moment. So again, we can resist that by saying, do you know what we're actually going to really focus on making sure that our family structures, our local community structures are really bedded down. We're going to work with those we're going to switch off elements whenever we are being desocialised. Whenever we're being put in the queue, you know when we want to go and see the doctor.

Richard Carsson

We just hang up. 

Rob Verkerk PhD

You used to go to a different medical practice. Yeah, we have to make those choices.  

Mike Tennessee

We've got to go to a break in a moment I thought we'd warn you about that, but just as the healthcare system seems to have lost its way, which is what we've been talking about, we want to talk about what your views are in relation to the education system and even the political system we're now subjected to, I mean, how deeply rooted are the problems that currently surround us in those areas as well? When we come back we'll have a couple of minutes back for some answers. 

Richard Carsson

We're picking up on Mike's point there before we went off for the break. 

How can we become more aware of these subliminal processes that are being used to probably coerce the population at large and then how do we break down on that sort of morass of groupthink that it appears to be, you know, highly in evidence at the moment, but bit by bit, I always think of a damn wall, if it's got a small crack in it, a little bit of water leaks out, but once it breaks, there's a huge torrent of chaos and I'm of the mind that when the public of the world, realise how much they're being almost harassed into a dangerous situation by technically not that many people, 6/700,000, there's seven and a half billion or more of us who can sit on them and squash them. So how do we get people awake to the moment to start to do something in a constructive manner to stop this nonsense? 

Rob Verkerk PhD

It's fascinating to see how behavioral science has become the dominant science that no one is really hearing about because it's what is being used through the social media through political systems through the mainstream media. It's about awareness, we have to understand where these nudges are coming from. We have to get people to re-engage in critical thinking when they look at common sense issues. So for example, what is the medical need for children to receive the vaccines so that people are lining up putting their kids in front of an untested mRNA technology without any clinical trial evidence? Thinking that it's the best way of protecting their children, not asking questions about where are we today over the risk benefit balance. Is there a possibility that some of the genetic information in these vaccines could become encoded within the human genome, and of course there's been a whole scientific debate even in mainstream science going on with a group at MIT and Harvard that are showing that certainly there is a real possibility that reverse transcription could occur. These should be major public debates. But, we can also start looking at the curriculum that our children are being exposed to. So if you look at the, because I've had six kids, my oldest son in their 30s, my youngest are teen,I've seen over the last 20 years, the change in the curriculum. So if we look at the sciences now, kids are learning very, very little about the natural sciences, how nature actually works they're learning about technology as applied to science, they're often doing three weeks just on vaccination, but not learning anything about mRNA technology. They don't learn about how to make healthy food. They learn about food technology. 

When you look at what's happening, around sociological education a lot of the education is really about conditioning kids into this idea of collectivism so that anyone that's considering that a more libertarian approach might be a way forward is immediately considered politically incorrect, and obviously we've seen this massive change around gender issues. It's OK for a six and seven-year old to question what kind of identity they feel they're going to subscribe to at a point when, psychologically, there is a huge amount of plasticity. 

Right around us, whether it's the education system, the political system, there are some big big issues that should be front page news. It should be a major topic of day discussion and all of it's being thrust under the carpet. And again we need to pull it out of the from under the carpet and and cast a light on it and say guys, if we really care about the next generation, we've got to start talking about this stuff. 

Mike Tennessee

One of the questions we've raised on this program Robert, on more than one occasion is have we ever seen that the test results or have these vaccines actually being tested to an extent, which some of the other drugs that have been produced have to be tested and tried and certified and approved before they were allowed onto the market. That doesn't seem to have been the case with vaccines

Rob Verkerk PhD

Absolutely not. First of all, these are not vaccines like previous vaccines. Even the recombinant technology ones like the HPV vaccine that Australia was one of the big test beds for underwent proper phase three trials. There wasn't transparency in those trials and of course, that's one of the reasons that we were amongst many to say if you're going to fast track the process with these mRNA and adenoviral vector injections, there has to be transparency. And of course, the Who, the FDA, the European Medicines Agency, all the big regulators said, don't worry, we will be fully transparent. Of course they were less transparent than they've ever been, and of course, now we see decisions being made by the FDA that are confirming that now they're going to be doing updates and building in BA4/BA5 sub variants of Omicron into the updated mRNA shots. They don't need to go through any additional testing at all. 

So again, over the last three years, this principle of making sure that drugs are rigorously tested before they're released on the public, that's all being thrown to the wind as well. 

Richard Carsson

I think in that commentary there Robert, we've had a very knowledgeable lady Dr Judy Wilyman and she has been studying the effects of vaccines or injections, preferably for over 40 years. And I noted in one of your meetings just the other day that you had an interesting very simple graph where it was what was normal, what has happened with today with 75 to 85 year olds, but now the build up of the various drugs that are foisted on children, how that is very deleterious to their longevity and health. It's a shocking graph, but it's in context with what Doctor Wilyman says. It builds up in your system and it does you no bloody good.

Rob Verkerk PhD

It looks as if we've now hit a point at which the baby boomers that are alive today are going to be the most long lived generation. We're starting to see morbidity and comorbidities in children that we know will have dramatic impacts on healthspan and lifespan of course just as we don't have data that shows what happens when you expose children, or in fact anyone on the planet, to 20/30,000 industrial chemicals that we're exposed to daily. What we have is individual pieces of data for each chemical separately, but not when you put them together in mixtures, which is the way that we're exposed to them. Nor do we have data that shows what happens when you expose children to 60/70 childhood vaccines. And of course the technology of these vaccines, we we can see it with DTP is one of the best longitudinal studies looking at long term impacts when they switched to recombinant technology in West Africa. So Peter Arbo has been studying this for over 40 years and he's published it all. When they switched to this recombinant technology the mortality rate in the vaccinated increased compared with the unvaccinated. It's one of the few comprehensive studies we have on vaccinated versus unvaccinated. We actually have  just studied a cohort that are part of the Vax control group, which is a UK based cooperative that has international members. It has actually a lot of sign ups in Australia. It basically is conducting a survey looking at health outcomes as well as some, attitudes, also discrimination that are foisted upon people who've elected to exercise their right of refusal and first of all we see that people who are unvaccinated, who have just turned down these these jabs are doing surprisingly well. They have very low rates of hospitalisation. 

Richard Carsson

Robert, you're speaking to one, you're speaking to one. 

Rob Verkerk PhD

There you go, there you go fantastic. 

Richard Carsson

I've had I had 1 1/2 days of a mild temperature similar to a very intermediate flu. I did get the RAT out of the broom cupboard and tested myself. That was OK. I showed up a bit of pink and then within two days I was as fit as a fiddle and my doctor said to me, but you haven't been vaccinated and I said very quickly that's why I'm bloody well and I'm not touching your rubbish. 

Rob Verkerk PhD

I picked it up leaving Brazil two weeks ago and I'm through it and then just a mild cold. Obviously this is one of the reasons that they're pushing so many people to be injected, because you then lose your comparator group, your ability to look at a control group, and of course the figures. 

The biggest control group we have in the world now is sub-saharan Africa. 55 nations that have the lowest vaccination rate. They also don't have a COVID problem. 

Richard Carsson

I think they're beginning to panic. 

Rob Verkerk PhD

I'd agree.

Richard Carsson

It's absolute lies, crap it's bloody dangerous and if we keep telling people they might get the message. Just for your information today, I think the Commissioner of Police in New Zealand has been asked to look into all the deaths associated with the RNA injections, and I think it's going to be taken seriously, that is a big problem for the medical profession that's been pushing it and also I would suggest the Prime Minister of New Zealand and her medical thugs for want of a word, so if we start to get a bit of I don't like it and I'm going to push back, they've got nowhere to go because they can't defend their position. 

Rob Verkerk PhD

Exactly, I mean this idea that they're still using the term safe to refer. Back in the 80s we forced the Australian Government to stop using the term safe around pesticides and they agreed. We were challenging them. We were going to go to court on it when they looked at the evidence, they thought well, actually we're not going to win this in court and exactly the same thing should apply to these unproven injections. 

Richard Carsson

Well, it's been, I suppose filibusted for want of a word and everything as we know, and we'll come back to this, but perhaps in the last section of our chat today the mainstream media and how deleterious they've been. But I just wanted to make a quick query of you. What are your thoughts on wearing masks? I'm of the mind they're useless, but you might have a reason why they should be used. 

Rob Verkerk PhD

We've looked at the science from the start. We see no compelling evidence whatsoever. In fact there is a suggestion. In fact, even the VAX control group cohort, 18 and a half thousand people, the lowest rates of COVID were amongst the groups that never wore masks. And you know, part of that is linked to the psychology. People who are fearful they are, if they're wearing a mask, they probably are taking less responsibility. They're probably not taking their vitamin C, their vitamin D, and other things, and people who are not wearing masks realising they have to take more responsibility for their health, but just from a mechanistic point of view, certainly as a physical barrier they do not act as a physical barrier. Then on top of that, they're acting as this environment that is collecting a lot of other pathogens on them. They're interfering with their own breathing, so their oxygen saturation is going down so their immune system is not going to be working as effectively. It is nothing more than virtue signalling. 

Richard Carsson

Right, now you know that as a medical practitioner. How do the chief medical officers? Well, that's what we call them here in Australia and I think in New Zealand I don't know what they call them in Europe, how can they stand there and blatantly lie to people? 

Rob Verkerk PhD 

They've been lying to people about a whole bunch of things. So these lies have been integrated. Essentially what they're exploiting is uncertain science, so there there are one or two papers that you can go to that show a marginal effect, but when you look at how the studies were done and who paid for them you can see that there is a littering of that kind of science, so they're exploiting scientific uncertainty and then cherry picking data that supports them. And you can argue, well, you know everyone to a degree, so it's one of the reasons that we're in such a mess because the data you can choose any particular study the worst thing that's happened to science, in my view is that the journals that used to be the pinnacle of quality research, the New England Journal of Medicine, The Lancet are now some of the worst studies you'll see in those that's paid for science and of course, those tend to be the journals that your chief medical officers and others are using to justify this. When you look at the overall balance of evidence there is absolutely no general trend to say that mask wearing has any benefit at all. 

Richard Carsson

I've seen enough to say it's dangerous, but it certainly has got no capacity to prevent you from catching whatever moronic disease is floating about on the dam. Sorry, I can't call it Omicron. Seriously it's rubbish and there's so much of it and one of the ones that really gets confuses me is how women, I tend to think of them as being more nurturing, can stand there, female medical officers wanting to jab children at the age of five months that is beyond comprehension. There's enough evidence to say it won't do them any good and may harm them. How do they do it?

Rob Verkerk PhD 

Most of the people who are making those administrative decisions are not familiar with all of the available science and they have not studied the 55,000 pages of data that have been released by Pfizer. They've not even questioned the fact that why did Pfizer want to hang on to those data for 75 years. So they've literally bought a line that says, well, the regulator has decided that these are good for children and their job is to go ahead with it. They are ultimately protecting their backsides and their jobs, and they are benefiting from being seen to be part of the ingroup. That this is essentially how society has been, cut up and and divided. And you know people feel safer being part of that ingroup. Of course, people like ourselves, feel a whole lot safer being part of an out group. And of course, when you look at revolutions, it's always the people in the outgroup that persist if they are prepared to persist long enough that eventually becomes the ingroup over time. 

Richard Carsson

The instigator of the insurrection, so to speak

Rob Verkerk PhD

Correct

Mike Tennessee

Now Robert, it's Mike here again. We're going to go to another break, but you raised something which resonated in my mind and Richard referred to it to the effect of our media as it stands today. Absolute deleterious to humanity in my view, we might come back to something of that nature after the break. 

Richard Carsson

Excellent, excellent topic. 

Mike Tennessee

Mike Tennessee and Richard Carsson, and today our very special guest, Dr Robert Verkerk. Now Robert before the break we were about to change our topics slightly, but, not really, because you've raised this. The effect of the media as it is today, compared with what we used to be able to do and read some news in the paper, we don't seem to be able to do that anymore. 

Rob Verkerk PhD

It's globalisation again. The mechanism that has been used is that we as we move towards an ever more authoritarian system we have to condition the public mind, the masses. This is the environment that the behavioral psychologists are working through. We have accepted this idea that the police people that are overseeing what's right and wrong, controlling what is and isn't scientific or medical information or misinformation are going to be journalists, often very young journalists that again have been conditioned to accept a view, certainly do not have the skills to be able to evaluate quality or otherwise of a paper in the New England Journal of Medicine, or in fact, any other journal. And if it doesn't comply with a particular view this, you know we use this term the mainstream narrative all the time. This is a religion. It isn't science. It is actually a form of misinformation and all they're doing is acting if you like there's an enforcement system about whether or not you stay within those particular guidelines, those tramlines if you step out from outside it, you then face consequences. You get your social media feed cut. You get punished in a variety of different ways. So if you are prone to compliance, prone to be accepted by the ingroup, you're going to play the game, and that's what's happening to the vast majority of people. If people's main source of information is going to be the globally controlled media systems that are linked by organisations like the Trusted News Initiative that are controlling the information that's going out not just on coronavirus but on everything because everything ultimately is interlinked. So if you get the view on what's going on in the Ukraine with Russia, there is a very specific line of approach that the media is using, and that ultimately forces people into thinking that everything that Russia has absolutely no right in Ukraine they certainly weren't going in to knockout bioweapon factories or anything like that, there was never a problem with Nazis. There was never a problem with a racket around refugees and children and paedophilia, or anything else. So yes, we we get conditioned into a view and people are blindly accepting it. 

Richard Carsson

Just a quick one. You mentioned something: Trusted News Initiative. Who are they? Where are they located?

Rob Verkerk PhD

Again, you know the BBC has been one of the the key players, when you take the BBC has tentacles everybody wins. In Brazil recently, I mean you can log onto the BBC in Portuguese, which is specifically for reading BBC type information that appears balanced, but actually is very imbalanced and so it has its tentacles all through Africa all through Asia, BBC World Services is a massive organisation. So Gates is deeply involved in feeding into it. Why does a software engineer who has this fascination to get vaccines into the arms of almost everyone on the planet also have such a desire to control the media around the world. If you look at the Guardian in the UK, the single biggest funder is the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation.

Richard Carsson

I get where you're coming from now, so certain media entrepreneurs say the Murdoch or the Fairfax institutions, they're all part of the information or disinformation, and the strangling of an alternative voice or an alternative viewpoint. 

Rob Verkerk PhD

Yes, in the sense that they're all talking the same narrative that has happened. But if you look at all, so what's happening, we tend to use for TNT and other wonderful organisations like it this concept of new media, because essentially, what is beginning to happen. There's a wonderful German website that's been pulling all of them together. A whole new media industry is developing because people said you know enough isn't enough, I now have learned many things that they told us was, you know, we assumed were facts are not facts and they didn't have information to present them as facts. So they lied to us and and that's where the distrust happens. I think we're in a world where, as we started off discussing, the level of distrust by the public is increasing dramatically, so people are looking to receive media through other channels. And of course this is one of the reasons why it's so important not to just be discussing this idea of coronavirus, because to some degree that's what they want us to do. So while we're all discussing coronavirus, they can be sending huge numbers of satellites into space they can be setting up 5G systems that are all about the Internet of Things so that it can start controlling almost every facet of our lives and move us into this kind of great reset environment of transhumanism, where there is an absolute blurring between humanity and technology, and that's the world that they're trying to create using, if you like coronavirus as a smokescreen, so we owe it to everyone around us to not be obsessed by coronavirus, and you know we find it as an NGO, as an education research organisation, the Alliance for Natural Health International, we find even with our subscribers around the world people do have very little appetite for anything else because they know that there is so much disinformation so much change. It is one of those things that affects your life dramatically. People have seen people dying, so they're concerned about it, but ultimately we we have to be looking at the big picture. 

Richard Carsson PHD

OK, I I know TNT radio is certainly on the crusade of trying to get decent, objective discussion anywhere, but if you ask one of the narrative people to come on and have an open debate, they won't do it. How do you give them a bit of a bang on the head? 

Rob Verkerk PhD

Well, you know that that has been the oldest trick in the book, and we've always referred to it as trying to make sure that the bomb doesn't explode. So if you have a very, you know difficult expose for them you have information say about how Pfizer has concealed data you know you won't get Albert Borla coming saying mea culpa we did wrong. They will, particularly if it is a non establishment group that has discovered these problems, they will pretend it hasn't happened and they will just choose to talk to those who they want to talk to and that's obviously one of the ways in which the new media starts to grow, because the only place you can then find information about this new discovery, this new expose is going to be on the new media. 

Richard Carsson

And you made a comment about, an institution in Germany they're trying to put it all together. They're a fairly disparate group the new media groupings, and perhaps have separate, slightly different agendas. How does that all gel together so that there is a stronger and a more belligerent voice opposing the the narrative as such? 

Rob Verkerk PhD

I think it just happens through natural selection. Ultimately, people, essentially what this German website has done is just simply identify the many, people might think there there are dozens of alt media or new media radio stations, internet stations, there are actually hundreds all over the world, and so the starting point is to collate them. So depending on which country you're in, you can actually see the smorgasbord of options that you can tune into. And essentially like any new industry, it is going to go through a maturation process and the public will end up making selections. I think the really important thing that new media needs to do is to maintain integrity, maintain balance, you know there's still a place for balanced journalism, but it just depends what your perspective is so you know it is fantastic to when you can have an opportunity to get someone who was on the other side maybe who has become a whistleblower, that's one of the most interesting angles that people have seen with the new media. But essentially we do need to ensure and you know pinch ourselves from time to time to make sure that we are covering issues in a balanced manner. 

Richard Carsson

Exactly, do we have time to do it with the the sort of stealth that's going on behind the scenes? 

Rob Verkerk PhD

I think to some degree what's still happening because we're at the early stages of the development of this media, the balance is happening by the new media giving it a very different perspective from that which the mainstream media is delivering. So people choose to have mainstream radio stations or television stations on some of the time. At least they can tune into new media to get a different balance on what might be going on. I think in time as new media becomes a choice, an exclusive choice as people are turning off the major broadcasters more and more people doing that, you know, more and more people saying I have stopped listening to mainstream radio or television news. 

Richard Carsson

I'm afraid I did that

Mike Tennessee

Well, what we've said is apart from the rubbish that's being promulgated by the major media outlets, the standard of the people presenting these days compared with what it used to be, has also dropped enormously. It's perhaps, do you think, because people don't want to be involved in that major or mainstream media. 

Richard Carsson

We've got about a minute to go. 

Rob Verkerk PhD

I think there's a selection system going on. There's a selection system going on with journalists because of Gates and other organisations that are usurping control, Murdoch or any of these large oligopolies are controlling the kind of person that comes in and when you're an young upcoming journalist, you essentially play the game if you want to keep your job, so it's creating a selection system itself. 

Mike Tennessee

Exactly. Well, it's been wonderful to have you on the show today I dare say with any luck, we could probably entice you to come back again. 

Rob Verkerk PhD

Mike, Richard, it's been an absolute pleasure talking to you. I'd love to come back anytime. Keep up the great work rebalancing if you like the media. TNT are doing an amazing job. 

 

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